If we could work out enough of these amendments, I would like to vote for this bill. I can assure my friend from Idaho that I supported the bill last year because I wanted to do something about these mandates. But we have to do it in a way…

That is actually a related but somewhat different idea. If I have enough space on my amendments list, I intend to offer an amendment on this matter. The Senator from Ohio raised the same question, and this is what it is. Let us assume the…

But if a range is going to be permitted, then it seems to me the bill must be explicit as to what will be that magic, specific amount upon which a point of order is going to either lie or not lie. I must say, I do not see any logic in…

If we can imagine a mandate which does not have a sunset provision or is not a 10-year authorization or not a 5-year authorization, it is just a permanent authorization, somehow or the other the CBO has to estimate the cost…

We also have subsequent appropriations which are possible, as well. We are trying to legislate now on the basis of an estimate. There is no logic in an estimate to say we are going to go with the high point of a range anymore than there is…

Then the bill would have to be amended to provide that the Budget Committee would get involved prior to the markup of the bill in committee. Because as I understand it, it is CBO that makes the estimate and the Budget Committee does not…

Well, there seems to be two different opinions on this issue. I think that it is important that the language of the bill be clear as to whether or not a point of order would lie against a bill coming out of the Committee, which does not…

It would make it a relevant hypothetical because CBO is mandated in the bill to come up with the direct cost. In order to have a discussion of when the first fiscal year is triggered, I am saying this is the CBO conclusion. Assume for the…

I thank my friend. This is a very different process, may I say. The CBO would never have to determine whether or not there was a mandate that applied to local government, what year it is effective, and it was never required to create with…

If I may say so, we are introducing a tremendous ambiguity, because we are saying in the bill that the first fiscal year after the effective date, and each 4 fiscal years thereafter, we will determine a critical estimate. I am giving the…

last week we began a colloquy with the managers of the bill on some of the uncertain provisions and ambiguous provisions in the bill. I thought we could pick that colloquy up this evening. I have a number of amendments that have been…

My question then of the Senator from Ohio is, since this is not an estimate of the 5-year costs, once that threshold has been reached--strike the five. I want to change my 5-year time. I do not want to get two 5-year periods in here. It…

Is that the intent of the sponsors, that the CBO recommends? We do not give them any guidance? That the sponsors of the bill just throw it off to the CBO? We are writing a bill here. What are we urging the CBO to do?

This is the document created, if I may say so, following all of the input. The CBO has done its work and has consulted with State and local officials. After consultation, it then tells us that this is their best estimate. This is what is…

I may offer an amendment to basically have an inflation factor built in so that we would reestimate every few years what that $50 million or $100 million or $200 million is to the nearest $10 million. I have reserved a number of…

Is it then the intent of the Senator from Ohio that if the range estimate is made by the CBO, that that would be the same as no estimate?

The other possibility, if I may ask the Senator to yield, is that we are overfunding. We do not want to be appropriating more money or requiring the appropriation of more money than is needed to do the job. They are both unacceptable…

The committee is concerned about and recognizes the difficulty of making outyear estimates, particularly beyond the 5-year window. The committee notes that the new enforcement procedures are based on thresholds being exceeded. However, if…

Well, the amendment is $20 million, and $20 million is under the $50 million threshold.

I am wondering whether or not the $200 million figure also goes up as well? It does. All right. That is fine if there is an inflation factor already built in. I thank the Senator from Ohio. Now, getting back to this question, let us assume…

The point is that you are asking the CBO to make an estimate. I am telling you what their conclusion is. I am telling the Senator what the conclusion of the CBO is so we can have a discussion. It makes no difference in my hypothetical…

Well, I think there is a serious ambiguity here and, to some extent, an abdication if we let this go without clarification. The abdication is that we must, as a Senate and a House, later on know what the legislation intended. It is central…

My question would be this: The word ``specific'' is not in here. Would this be clearer, does the Senator from Delaware believe, if the word ``specific'' were added before the words ``criteria and procedure"?

Correct. Is there any doubt in your mind one Senator will raise any point of order? There is not 1 out of 100 Senators who opposes--by the way, the Senator from Idaho is a cosponsor of last year's bill.

This bill goes one step beyond that and creates the presumption that we are going to either pay for that increase for the public hospital or waive it. It does not do that for the private hospital. So, we go right down the road together…