Tom Harkin

Yes, well, that also gets into this whole area of penalties that you were talking about.

Should we certify that an individual is eligible for 14(c)? We don't have that requirement.

I think beyond that would be to actively engage these entities into looking into these instances to see if people are not being paid.

I don't mean to suggest that they are nefarious employers, but merely because they are not for profit and really because they are running a sheltered workshop does not mean that they wouldn't try to cut corners in a way that would harm…

Well, again, they may be--correct me if I am wrong, they may be nonprofit, but they do make money.

Now again, as Mr. McKeon said, the vast majority of 14(c) applications are from nonprofits.

I mean, there would obviously be a bias for the employer to get it down.

Do we need to more narrowly define who might be eligible for a 14(c) subminimum wage?

Thank you very much, Mr. Leonard, for the testimony, the advice, and the suggestions.

Thank you again for always being there, Senator Harkin.

We are going to do something about it. I just don't know exactly what. That is why we have got you here.

Well, you can't imagine how embarrassing isn't the right word, embarrassment. Just how badly I feel that this has taken place in my own State.

Thank you again for holding this hearing. I will be glad to answer any questions.

You get me some of that information I asked about, I would sure appreciate it very much.

Well, it is pretty bad, and I am still trying to get to the bottom of just what we need to do with 14(c) and 3(m) and tightening up on those and just making sure that, first of all, under 14(c) there has to be determination of your…

Perhaps we need to more narrowly define what people with disabilities are eligible for this.

I was surprised, Mr. McKeon, to find out that there is a contract agency in Texas...

How many are there now?

Seven hundred fifty. For the entire United States?

I suspect there are a lot of 14(c) employers that have never seen a Wage and Hour investigator.

How do you prove that someone even wants the food or housing that is being deducted from their paycheck? Maybe they don't even want it.

The only way you would ever find out about a 3(m)--so when they file the renewal for 14(c), they don't have to file 3(m)?

The reason I ask that is that it is my understanding that the Iowa Workforce Development requested information about the number of 14(c) employees in the State of Iowa--not just here, but in the State--and where they were employed, and…

I just wonder how they track it, too.

Do we have any data on what percentage of investigations result in penalties to the employer?