Tom Coburn

Looking backwards at Abacus, would you feel that the system worked for Abacus? Do you think there is any ethical question that can be raised on Abacus?

Does it concern you at all that his position is that, in his own self-evaluation, which Senator Levin referred to, that he was taking positions and touting himself that he was utilizing the strengths of their analysis to take positions to…

But it was an email addressed to you?

So you double-insured, basically?

Markets have to have people on both sides of them. My concern is where is the ethical standard on when you expose your position as a market maker.

So you would not think it would be prudent for somebody in risk management like you to maximize a position for Goldman Sachs to take advantage of that information and then make decisions about your competitors who were long in these areas?

Is that an accurate assessment of the trading strategy?

To me, buying protection on senior layers of risk means being short.

I have never seen anything like it.

Is there a Board process that leads on that? What are the standards? If I go to work for Goldman Sachs, what am I going to hear about ethics when I am hired?

Well, let me ask you this, if you would. Does it make sense to you somebody would tout a philosophy that says, I am going to take advantage of the knowledge that we as a firm have and make more money for the firm, yet ignore the…

I want to get your assessment.

Well, it would certainly look like it would be since the email is directed to you.

I just have a couple of other questions.

Portfolio manager, OK. That fits.

Why would somebody not buy protection on the lowest potential performing component of the deal and buy long on the top end of the deal?

Nobody would do that?

Your job also is to keep customers, isn't it?

Just to be clear, I have a little difference with the Chairman on the idea of shorts.

So they might straddle that for their own insurance, but that is it?

There has never been a position change like what took place in the last 4 years in this country in the mortgage markets.

Do you think it was ethical for Goldman to release all the personal emails of Mr. Tourre?

We care very much about ethics at Goldman Sachs and we don't believe in any way, shape, or form that our compensation is not consistent with people having good ethical standards.

Understand. I have no criticism for that and I am not making any judgment on it.

That is what it says.