And where it is different. It is different in a very critical way at a very critical time for your bank.

You are not constrained about talking about whether or not, as a policy, you go to the Fed if there is a violation of a court order and urge the Fed to withdraw a license.

These banks operate in the United States. They come here, they get clients here. OK? They have to operate according to our laws.

They should fear it.

This kind of language, this kind of an approach to the process is not consistent, it is not acceptable.

I cannot think of anything much more egregious in this area than a bank telling a customer, helping a customer to open up an account in a shell corporation account in some tax haven.

Have you urged the Swiss Government to change the laws to allow disclosure of U.S. customers' names?

So the people who approved the travel were not rogue, but the people who did travel were rogue.

You cannot hide behind the laws of your own country.

But in any event, you acknowledge that misconduct was not all in this one area of the bank.

Retroactively. Why did you do that?

There is a big loophole in this treaty which you continue to say we ought to ratify.

It was a criminal case, was it not?

They have not changed their laws, have they?

So now I want to discuss what actually happened with the regional credit for that net new asset amount from Client 5 in 2012.

We are talking about names of accounts outside of the United States where American--some Americans who do not want to be full Americans, and instead they want to evade their obligations--get involved in tax evasion.

You think that is the only thing that counts. There is something else that counts.

I have indicated that we hope that treaty will get ratified, but it has its limits, and it does not apply to thousands of accounts of people who owe us money.

Did you find that some Swiss bankers advised U.S. customers to secure transactions under $10,000 which would then avoid triggering cash transaction reports?

With the effect that it had, which was to make the Swiss operation look more positive than it otherwise would.

OK. Well, that is what happened here.

We would have that same concern and that is part of what we are going to be looking into.

So SALN had about perhaps 10 percent of the Swiss accounts opened by U.S. customers, and about 90 percent were spread out across the rest of the bank.

And it is the lack of vigor that we feel and you should be aware of it.

Is this the way your bank should operate?