I think it is interesting. Kansas is different than, I mean, you have different areas.

I mean, that is a legitimate, we think a legitimate question.

I do not think things have improved personally.

It is fair to say Congress has just made it hard.

But I still see articles in the paper about it, though. You still see more at state and local prisons, but it is still----

I do not think you can put a man in prison for years and not give him work. I just do not think you can.

I think it is an embarrassment that the United States has the largest per capita prison system now in the world.

Well, Mr. Chairman, could we try a pilot?

If we do not have productive, number one education programs, and number two, the Prison Industries Program, or some form of it, we cannot possibly ensure that inmates learn how to work.

I was opposed to what the Congress did on Prison Industries.

We are down to 17 percent.