James Lankford

We are trying to figure out who sets that, who guides that, where does that money go.

This Subcommittee will also hold a hearing examining the burden of Federal statutes and regulations placed on State and local governments.

This is not a one-way conversation.

That will be one that we want to watch, to be able to see how that works, because that gives a clear set of guidelines out there that people can find and note and to be able to help self-manage.

If it is a fine that goes to the General Treasury or that you donate to a third-party organization, we want to know who picks that and where does that go and what is the long-term benefit of that.

Tell me a little bit about how that works, and what I would like to know is, how do you evaluate its effectiveness on how it is actually accomplishing the mission?

The fines are not coming back to the entity themselves, anyway, so this is not a, quote-unquote, 'money maker' for the agency.

I do want to maintain this conversation. What we would ask of you is I am sure that there are ideas that you or your entities would be interested to be able to share ways they can improve this process.

So, give me an example of some of this, because this is their own safety systems, right, their own safety checks that they are doing.

I have no issue with that. I am talking about minor fines.

More stick than carrot

I believe that most Federal agencies agree that transparency is important and that providing accessible compliance assistance services is essential to any comprehensive enforcement regime.

If it takes all day, we will stay until we find a violation

As a result, my constituents tell me that their relationship with agencies have deteriorated and that instead of inspectors working with businesses to identify and solve compliance problems, government regulators show up, issue a fine and…

But, some are concerned that they should not because they are, for whatever reason--what I am telling you is, it is a good program----

This is one of the areas that we want to examine.

That shelf right there? We had to raise by six inches and we got a fine for it.

And that is a more fluid conversation that is happening.

The challenge is, once you go through that, you set a fine and then there is a process to have a conversation on the settlement.

The determination of whether there is a fine and the amount depended on the mood of the investigator

The EPA views businesses as an ATM to be fined, regardless of the determinations of an investigation

I would hope that you are in the same position that we are working on health and safety.

But, the goal of the regulation and of the statute is usually health and safety and environmental protection and such, and the fine, the penalty here, becomes a vehicle to help accomplish some of that.

We are still back to the settlement thing. The process, how to get there.

As far as, do you feel an obligation coming at you either legislatively or from a guidance that if there is a violation, that is a fine?