Carl Levin

Well, it is a public document now.

I am glad you brought it to their attention.

We are talking about names of accounts outside of the United States where American--some Americans who do not want to be full Americans, and instead they want to evade their obligations--get involved in tax evasion.

Frankly, you ought to know what it is. And we ought to argue. We ought to raise the fear of God that if you are going to aid and abet violations of American law, you are not going to be allowed to operate in America.

You are not constrained about talking about whether or not, as a policy, you go to the Fed if there is a violation of a court order and urge the Fed to withdraw a license.

Of course, but it means you have substantial evidence.

They should fear it.

It is difficult for me to accept that, when you do not try to enforce a subpoena, when you do not go to a court when you have a subpoena which you have issued, to enforce it to get records, to help put the pressure on a bank.

How do you expect to get a treaty ratified in the Senate--and I am all for it, by the way, for whatever value it has; it has some--but how do you expect to get that ratified if the other party, the partner to that treaty, then unilaterally…

It cannot have enhanced stories. It has got to be accurate stories.

You think that is the only thing that counts. There is something else that counts.

If Switzerland had not received the re-allocation in that quarter, it would have shown a negative 1.5 billion in NNA.

We just simply cannot spend years negotiating treaties, watch the treaty partner poke holes in them.

I will tell you, the $6 billion that was produced was the result of a tough enforcement action that worked.

They are evading their taxes, their obligations to the people of the United States, to their own countrymen.

OK. And the second quarter, the NNA for Client 5 was not split at all. It was entirely credited to Americas.

How do you know they are accurately stated?

If the United States were to make an extradition request, would your bank object?

These banks operate in the United States. They come here, they get clients here. OK? They have to operate according to our laws.

And wouldn't we make a pretty clear point about our determination also about the Swiss being unhelpful if we file a request for extradition, in a criminal case, for people who have operated in the United States.

We would have that same concern and that is part of what we are going to be looking into.

It is not a detail when you say positive results, black and white, from Switzerland, albeit, seasonal slow-down.

The question is showing Switzerland in the positive or in the negative. That is the issue.

You would show this big a gap between what the internals show?

With the effect that it had, which was to make the Swiss operation look more positive than it otherwise would.