What we are looking at right now in terms of the health care law is when it was originally passed, it was going to cost a trillion dollars over 10 years.

Again, that is going to be, I am afraid, another government program that may not be particularly efficient in terms of how the money is spent.

OK. So what is the sample size on the CERT?

Then who determines that, in 2011, for example, that 61 percent of the $9.7 billion that was paid by the MACs, who determines that 61 percent of that were improper payments?

53 percent that were termed 'improper' or where there was--I am not exactly sure what this represents, but 53 percent by Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) are actually overturned.

the consumer of the product, by and large, does not care what something costs because they really do not have that much skin in the game.

I agree with you that fraud and abuse of the system is costly to taxpayers and I am looking forward to working with you on an ongoing basis to continue to hold hearings like this to try and get some control over these systems, over some of…

How do you prevent that going forward? It is a very difficult issue.

I think what we really need to do is work together and work with CMS to get the answer to your question in terms of what percentage really is fraud related?

Is that 100 percent of CMS claims paid through the MAC?

We want an effective and efficient government, and the trick is--I come from the private sector, and we were talking about earlier that in the private sector, you have the fiscal discipline of going bankrupt, of making sure that you not…