06/05/2012
https://www.congress.gov...
"So you do not agree with those that--that in a sense is default, right?"
"OK, and that is the outcome some of us are working toward right now, so I appreciate that, because to do one without the other does not make much sense."
"Thank you, Mr. Chairman."
"But if we do not raise the debt ceiling after August 2nd, that would require us to stop paying almost half of our other bills, even if you paid back the debt."