Kent Conrad: “I don't see the pivot.”

The one thing I know for sure is that what is happening now is not working.

I wish I could look you in the eye and say, you know, if we just had the will, we could reverse this, and we could go back to a time when defined benefit plans were on the increase. I do not think that is in the cards.

I do, and I made that argument to the commission, and others on the commission made some of the points that you are making now.

The bottom 20 percent of earners get a 35-percent increase over what is scheduled, a more than 60-percent increase over what is payable.