Carl Levin actually said...

I objected to it being the driver. I went ahead and tried to prevent us from what I believed was committing securities fraud.

And were you or your staff aware at the time that Moody's was working on the ABACUS rating that Paulson was shorting the assets in ABACUS?

Well, I could not agree with you more.

So, in this case, these ratings were downgraded within a year and are now below investment grade. These are junk.