05/11/2009
https://www.congress.gov...
"It's hard to get the groups together to figure that out."
"I think at least in my experience, if the goal is to actually educate whatever, 1.5, 1.7, 2.5, you've got to measure it."
"We really want to know if our agencies and entities that we're funding are doing the kind of job that you as experts in the field believe they should be doing."
"Thank you very much."