Jim Risch actually said...

I think that obviously the sanctions have two purposes. One is a direct effect to inflict pain, but the real objective is to change conduct.

But yet, if you took one of those pieces, any one of them individually, and looked at it and said, we just discovered who's doing this, it's...

Who makes the determination as to who's a good actor and a bad actor? That's what I really, really struggle with.

I think the takeaway from this, after listening to all of this, is something that's troubled me from the beginning and that is how difficult...