It takes money to save money.

I think it is interesting. Kansas is different than, I mean, you have different areas.

I mean, that is a legitimate, we think a legitimate question.

It is fair to say Congress has just made it hard.

I do not think you can put a man in prison for years and not give him work. I just do not think you can.

But I still see articles in the paper about it, though. You still see more at state and local prisons, but it is still----

I think it is an embarrassment that the United States has the largest per capita prison system now in the world.

Well, Mr. Chairman, could we try a pilot?

If we do not have productive, number one education programs, and number two, the Prison Industries Program, or some form of it, we cannot possibly ensure that inmates learn how to work.

I was opposed to what the Congress did on Prison Industries.

We are down to 17 percent.

I was the author with Senator Kennedy on the Prison Rape bill.

I know when Mr. Scott and I put the bill in we had tremendous resistance from the states.

I thank whatever is done really has to be so authentically, truly, bipartisan.

Also, Mr. Werholtz, if you vote for Sam Brownback for Governor you will have one of the finest guys that I know.

I think it has to be so truly bipartisan that it stands the test no matter who comes at it.

I think it is the most extensive since I have worked in this institution, that there has been so much time spent.

The problem is that this Congress has diminished the amount of work that prisoners can do.