Our unemployment rate is 8.1 percent. Factories are closing. We have got the biggest deficit for as far as the eye can see.

I was the author with Senator Kennedy on the Prison Rape bill.

We are down to 17 percent.

I was opposed to what the Congress did on Prison Industries.

If we do not have productive, number one education programs, and number two, the Prison Industries Program, or some form of it, we cannot possibly ensure that inmates learn how to work.

Well, Mr. Chairman, could we try a pilot?

I think it is an embarrassment that the United States has the largest per capita prison system now in the world.

But I still see articles in the paper about it, though. You still see more at state and local prisons, but it is still----

I do not think you can put a man in prison for years and not give him work. I just do not think you can.

It is fair to say Congress has just made it hard.

I mean, that is a legitimate, we think a legitimate question.

I think it is interesting. Kansas is different than, I mean, you have different areas.

It takes money to save money.

And actually, you know, for three old guys, you were fairly exciting insofar as laying out what the opportunities are insofar as really making a difference.

How well do we honestly do?

I think we are building more prisons, putting more people away when we ought to be putting more money into training and work.

People in prisons are people. They have moms and dads and husbands and wives and kids. And they are not statistics.

I think there is a unique opportunity. I think we are coming to a storm economically.